Tradition Breakers Episode 3 with Carol Shih

Today's episode of Tradition Breakers is really going to hit home for those of you who may not have been born into a supportive family dynamic.

My guest, Carol, had that experience. But you know what - she proves that that doesn't have to be a setback. She's going to tell us how that lack of family support actually led her to get so good at this one critical life skill that helped her create the life, the work, and the community that she now treasures today. Carol is such an excellent example of focus, self-awareness, and determination. She was born in Taiwan and came to the United States at the age of 19 to attend Cal State Long Beach. But her mission wasn't just to study here; it was really to stay and build a life here, and that's exactly what she did.

Fast forward to today, Carol has amassed an impressive knowledge and work experience in the world of e-commerce and tech. And that eventually led her to co-founding Qode Space, which is one of the top minority women-led Shopify and creative agencies here in Los Angeles. Carol is also a wife and a mom to a young toddler with another one on the way. So without further ado, here is my interview with Carol Shih.

Tradition Breakers is a podcast that highlights the stories of AAPI individuals who broke from tradition to follow their own artistic, creative, and entrepreneurial paths. It's hosted by Mary Vallarta and produced by Tasty Directives, an integrated marketing agency based in Venice, CA.

Schedule a free marketing consultation with Tasty Directives

Learn more about Carol Shih and her business, Qode Space. Email her at carol@qodespace.com.

Follow Carol and Qode Space on Instagram

Episode 3 Transcript

Mary Vallarta: Hello everyone, Mary Vallarta here, the host of Tradition Breakers. Welcome to the podcast. As you know, Tradition Breakers is all about sharing the stories of amazing AAPI folks who broke from tradition to follow their own artistic, creative, and entrepreneurial paths. And that could be a path in their personal life or professional life. Today's episode is really going to hit home for those of you who may not have been born into a supportive family dynamic.

My guest, Carol, had that experience. But you know what? She proves that that doesn't have to be a setback. She's going to tell us how that lack of family support actually led her to get so good at this one critical life skill that helped her create the life, the work, and the community that she now treasures today. Carol is such an excellent example of focus, self-awareness, and determination. She was born in Taiwan and came to the United States at the age of 19 to attend Cal State Long Beach. But her mission wasn't just to study here; it was really to stay and build a life here, and that's exactly what she did.

Fast forward to today, Carol has a massive, impressive knowledge and work experience in the world of e-commerce and tech. And that eventually led her to co-founding Qode Space, which is one of the top minority women-led Shopify and creative agencies here in Los Angeles. Carol is also a wife and a mom to a young toddler with another one on the way. So without further ado, here is my interview with Carol Shih.

Before we jump into today's podcast, I want to share a bit about Tasty Directives, my marketing and creative agency. Having been a manager, director, and head of marketing for several national brands, I’ve seen firsthand the unique needs of businesses from the inside. I’ve also had the opportunity to work with a lot of agencies, and one thing stood out so clearly to me: a lot of them are more concerned with providing a service rather than creating value. That’s why when I founded Tasty Directives, I made sure that creating value for our clients is our top priority. We understand your goals, dive deep into your market, tailor integrated strategies, and execute them flawlessly to deliver real, measurable results. So if you’re ready to see real growth, let’s connect. Visit www.tastydirectives.com/contact to schedule a free marketing consultation. Let’s scale your business with taste, not hassle. Now, back to the show.

All right, Carol, welcome to Tradition Breakers. Thank you for being here. I’m so excited to chat with you today.

Carol Shih: Thank you, Mary. I’ve been so excited to join this podcast. Thank you for having me.

Mary Vallarta: Yay! Of course. I met Carol a few months ago—I think it was in May or April, I can’t really remember, maybe even September. It’s a blur.

Carol Shih: It might be, yeah.

Mary Vallarta: But I feel like I’ve known you for a long time because we sort of clicked pretty quickly when I met you at that She Mark event at the Capital One Café in Santa Monica. And after that, we reconnected virtually via Zoom. I just really enjoyed hearing your story. That’s why I wanted you to come on the podcast because I think you can bring a lot of knowledge, advice, and practical information to other AAPI folks who are looking to start their businesses, especially in an industry that is very white male-dominated.

And also, for those who are looking to go to a place where their families or their friends might not be there with them. I think you can provide a lot of guidance there. So the first thing I want to ask you before we get into your professional life and your accolades is, I want to talk about this quality that I’ve observed about you, which is how you’re really great at reaching out and bringing people into your communities. So, were you always like that? Where did that come from? Did that develop over time? You have a really great way of making people feel welcome and comfortable and bringing them into the fold. So tell me about that.

Carol Shih: Great, great question. You know, I thought about that. I think it developed when I moved to the United States. So, I was born in Taiwan, raised in Australia when I was a kid, and then I went back to Taiwan for International American School. It’s been a wild ride. I think it’s a very Asian culture thing where they kind of move you around when you’re younger, especially if you live in a small country like Taiwan. So I learned to be independent, but also at the same time, I had this mentality of, I am on my own and I have to depend on myself. And if I’m not the one that can solve certain problems, I need to lean on the people around me.

And so when I moved to the United States when I was 19, I was literally this foreign-born girl that spoke perfect American-accented English but knew nothing about American culture. I didn’t know the slang, I didn’t know what people were talking about, and I knew nothing about U.S. history or poli-sci despite studying it. But I didn’t know any slang. And so I started making friends really fast. I had to get out there, and I became very involved in the student body at Cal State Long Beach. I was trying to be the Taiwanese Student Association president. And that’s when I realized the power of communities is amazing because if I didn’t know what to do, I could just shout to my team, like, “Who knows how to use a credit card?” because I didn’t even know how banking worked.

I didn’t know how healthcare worked—I still don’t know how healthcare works! I was confused about tax season, and there were all these things that I was just so confused about in this country. And because I spoke fluent English, no one really wanted to help me out. So I started to be very proactive about putting myself out there. People think I’m very extroverted, but that’s not always the case. And I think that when I found how many people were willing to help me out because I raised my hand, I wanted to be the same for my community as well. Especially the AAPI group—I felt like it’s so close to my heart that I want to help people just like me who are just as confused. And I feel like Asian women, or just Asians in general, we’re just bad at asking questions.

Mary Vallarta: Oh my God, yes! We really do try to figure out as much as we can, but you’re right—I agree.

Carol Shih: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think our parents taught us to be quiet in the corner, just be good, follow the crowd, and you’ll be fine. But I realized that a lot of answers don’t get answered, and questions don’t get addressed if you just sit around and do nothing. So that’s kind of how I developed that.

Mary Vallarta: Yes, it sounds like it was sort of like a necessity that came about because of survival instinct, right?

Carol Shih: Sure. [laughs]

Mary Vallarta: Yeah, and it’s super cool how you decided to go that route because some people do decide to go the other direction, which is to basically isolate themselves even more. Where did you get that idea? Was that just your natural reaction to things even before you moved to the U.S., or did you realize that that was probably going to be the best course of action for you?

Carol Shih: I think when somebody is pushed to the corner and you have nowhere else to go, and you tell yourself, “The only way is up,” that’s where I was at. I had a very toxic family environment in Taiwan, and I knew since I was in middle school and high school that I wanted to get out of there. And so when I had that plane ticket to come to the United States, I was like, “Oh, I am staying here.” Even though I’m also Australian, I knew when I was 19 that I needed a green card. In order to get a green card, I needed to get a working visa. In order to get a working visa, I needed to get a job. How do I get a job? I needed to find a job that was related to my major. So I worked backward and planned it out.

I knew I had to get the broadest major possible, find a job that was willing to sponsor my working visa, get that job, and then get the green card. I told myself I wanted to get it before I was 30, and I got my green card at 29. So I am very, very career-driven when it comes to that. I knew that I didn’t want to go back. And when you have nowhere else to go, you have to put yourself out there. And I’ve always loved challenging myself. I still do—I love trying new things because I want to know where my potential lies. My competition is me. I think since I was young, I’ve always wanted to know how far I can go and what my full potential is. I cry a lot too, so I just want to say to anyone listening who thinks, “Oh wow, I’m not…” [laughs] I question my own motives all the time. I’m like, “Why did I do this?”

Mary Vallarta: Which is totally normal, right? That voice comes up pretty often for some people, maybe for others not as often, but it does. And I think for you, what I admire a lot is that you really knew what you wanted to do, so you kind of reverse-engineered it from there. You were going to make it work regardless, right? That’s what it sounds like.

Carol Shih: Oh yeah. There was no job I wouldn’t take if it meant I could stay here.

Mary Vallarta: Yes, that’s what you wanted.

Carol Shih: I’d find a way, even if the door wasn’t open.

Mary Vallarta: Yes. So what was your major, and what was the job? How did that job lead you to founding or co-founding Qode Space, which is your e-commerce business?

Carol Shih: I looked and talked to a professor at Cal State Long Beach. I asked, “What are the most common jobs where I can get a working visa?” Of course, they said that as a foreigner, it’s usually something more specific like a doctor or engineer. Even the STEM field was very difficult. I wanted to be a psychologist at the time, but I found out it would take seven years in school, and I was like, “Okay, never mind. School is not my forte.” So I knew I had to go broad, and the broadest way to get a job that a big company would be willing to sponsor is in digital and tech. So I majored in communication and marketing. Communication was easy to graduate with, and marketing was broad enough that you could do so much with it.

I graduated in four years with a double major and quickly got out. I ended up interning for Louis Vuitton, and that’s how I fell into fashion. I also volunteered for a nonprofit that raised awareness about human trafficking and sex trafficking, which tied into my passion for fashion and raising awareness for women’s rights and reproductive rights. I learned a lot from those experiences. And because I worked at Louis Vuitton, my resume attracted a lot of attention from digital agencies with fashion clients. I stumbled upon a digital agency that needed a client success manager, so I started off as a customer service representative, picking up phone calls. After a week, I went to my boss and said, “I didn’t come to this country to answer phone calls. Give me more.”

I actually convinced them to give me another job. That’s when I got to work with over 40 enterprise fashion brands, like 7 For All Mankind, Juicy Couture, Rag & Bone, and more. I got to touch every part of the e-commerce lifecycle from beginning to end—I understood warehouse fulfillment, photo studio functions, backend and frontend development, marketing channels, and how it all works together. I eventually moved up into a director role and worked there for around six or seven years. They sponsored my green card, and I still remember the day I got it—I was like, “Wow, I finally got it. I’m American! Boss, I don’t even have to listen to you anymore!” [laughs]

But yeah, it was such an achievement. I was like, “What are you going to do now, huh? You can’t deport me now!” But that stress was always there in my 20s. My main focus was, “I can’t lose this job or I’ll get deported.” That stress really pushed me, but it also made me learn so much because I was determined to stick it out. I didn’t have the luxury to quit, so I told myself, “I’ve got to push forward no matter how difficult it is, no matter how low that glass ceiling is.” That mindset led me to many more opportunities.

Later on, I worked for Alibaba for a year, managing cross-border operations because I’m bilingual. It was a slight mistake because that was even more stressful than my previous job, working in a different time zone. Then, I met two developer friends who were starting a company called Qode Space. They were great developers, but they didn’t really know how to talk to people, so they asked if I could help with that.

I got lucky because people often misunderstand that building a business is not just about doing what you’re good at—it’s about finding people who are good at what you’re bad at. So I became the puzzle piece that helped fill those gaps, taking over operations and client communication at Qode Space. Eventually, we rebranded in the last two years to become a fully minority-woman-owned company, which is something I always wanted.

I mean, how many of us can say that we built a web development agency with two women moms that are minority-owned in a predominantly white-male industry? Check that box—I did that.

Mary Vallarta: Yes, you did! You and your co-founder are just kicking ass. Thank you for summarizing that beautifully. I’m sure during that time, it wasn’t always a linear path. What is one challenge that sticks out to you to this day, and what did you learn from it?

Carol Shih: The biggest challenge is accepting that it’s not just one challenge—there are always multiple challenges. Being an agency owner or waiting for a green card taught me that this isn’t the end, but it’s also not forever. Staying present during challenges is probably the most difficult part, and I still say that today. Whenever—excuse my language—shit hits the fan, it’s hard for someone like me, who’s Type A, not to panic. I’m always in fight-or-flight mode, asking, “How am I going to fix this? How am I going to get out of this?” But after years of dealing with so many crises, I’ve learned to sit with it and say, “Okay, this is the situation. It’s not going to be forever. How do I solve it?”

Mary Vallarta: How did you build that muscle of staying present during challenges? Did it develop over time, and if so, how?

Carol Shih: I think it goes back to community. I reach out to my community of friends and women founders. I also look for good mentors. I lean on mentorship a lot, asking, “What do I do in this situation?” Over time, that muscle developed. I didn’t always react this way—I used to have panic attacks so often at work that the ambulance would come once or twice a month. My whole company and HR thought I had a heart issue, but later, when I saw a therapist, they said, “This is a full-on anxiety attack.” I was like, “Oh, okay.”

I also turned to alcohol a lot because, in digital agencies, that’s what you do, right? You get stressed out, and you start drinking with clients. Alcohol is a big part of the fashion world too.

Mary Vallarta: Oh yes, it’s so easy to fall into that.

Carol Shih: Yeah, and I learned that the real solution is community—leaning on people who have answers you don’t. That’s what got me through.

Mary Vallarta: That’s such great advice—finding community is crucial because you’re never going to have all the answers, and that’s okay.

So from your director role (and beyond since you worked at Alibaba), how did you make the transition from a 9-to-5 job to running your own business? Because working a job and owning a business are two completely different things, and I’ve found that many people who make that jump aren’t always prepared for the lifestyle change. I’d love for you to share what that transition was like for you.

Carol Shih: It was hard. The most difficult thing for me was that I was such a workaholic. You mentioned 9-to-5—it was more like 7-to-6 for me. I was used to being the first one at work, turning on the lights, and the last one to leave. But I realized that wasn’t healthy, especially when I started having anxiety attacks. So I began pulling back. Working at Alibaba stretched me even thinner because I had to work at midnight for the China team, communicate with the East Coast at 4 AM, and still work throughout the day. I was driving 30 miles from Venice to Cerritos and getting no sleep. I worked there for about a year before I called it quits because my body was shutting down—I had hives, constant anxiety attacks, and I knew I needed a change.

The shift to being a business owner didn’t happen overnight. At first, I was helping with business development while I was recovering from burnout. I had just gotten married, and then the pandemic hit, and soon after that, I got pregnant. Everything happened within a few months, so life naturally pushed me in the direction of setting boundaries—learning how much I could push myself and where I needed to stop. When you’re pregnant and married, it’s no longer just about you; you need to communicate with both your life partner and business partner. If you crash, everyone else crashes.

It was a big awakening for me—I realized I needed to fill my own bucket first before I could fill others’. Unlike a 9-to-5, where you can go home and turn off, there’s no “off” switch when you’re running a business. You have to force yourself to turn things off. That transition was really difficult for the first two years of my entrepreneurial life—learning to set boundaries, knowing when to stop, and communicating with my team about how much I could handle.

Mary Vallarta: It sounds like there were multiple muscles you had to develop—self-awareness, knowing what you’re feeling, and listening to your body. Often, it’s easy to ignore what our bodies need, and that’s when things start to go haywire. Another muscle is speaking up—communicating what you need, whether to yourself or your partners. That’s crucial for business owners, especially because you also have clients relying on you.

Carol Shih: Yes, exactly. One quote that I keep repeating to myself is from James Clear: “You do not rise to the level of your goals; you fall to the level of your systems.” If I want to make a million dollars, I first have to ask myself if my company’s foundation and processes can even handle a million dollars’ worth of business. If the answer is no, I need to start there. When I returned from maternity leave after my first child, I found that 60% of my team had left. That was a wake-up call—I realized that I was the problem. They were holding on because of me, not because of our systems. That’s when I knew I needed to build a foundation strong enough that I could take a vacation and the business would still function.

So I went back to basics—setting our core values and mission straight. Now, if you ask any of my team members what to do in a crisis, they’ll tell you, “Quality comes first.” That’s our North Star—everything starts with quality. Learning this from my mentors was a game-changer: your team needs to understand your goals and mission, or else you’ll be in constant panic mode when you try to take a break.

Mary Vallarta: Yes, that’s such great advice. I can relate to working even while giving birth. I was in the same boat! But now you’re expecting again—how do you feel?

Carol Shih: Oh yes, that’s happening. [laughs]

This time around, I feel much more peaceful. After having my first child, I rebuilt my entire team, brought in a new partner (Tasha, who’s amazing), and we’ve really solidified our processes. Tasha is also a mom, and she’s got a super impressive background—she was at SpaceX before joining me. We click because we’re both process-driven, and that’s been a huge part of our success.

I’m due in November, but I’m not stressed about it. Our pipeline is good, the team is solid, and they even yell at me for not taking vacations! My operations manager—who’s Colombian and runs the team like a boss—gets on my case if I’m on Slack during a break. Knowing the team can function without me is the most comforting thing. I consider that a huge win.

Mary Vallarta: That’s incredible! It also shows your team that you trust them, which is empowering. It makes scaling easier because everyone knows how to take ownership and keep things moving forward without constant oversight.

Carol Shih: Exactly. The hard work is in building that foundation, but once you have it, growth becomes more sustainable. Finding the right teammates is key, and I could talk all day about how foundational that is. I also did some executive coaching—though I don’t love the word “coach”—and I found that business owners often struggle with scaling because they try to do everything themselves. You have to identify what you’re good at and then bring in people who excel in areas where you’re weak.

Mary Vallarta: Yes, knowing your weaknesses is so important because that’s how you bring in the right people—whether they’re part of your team or collaborators who can see your blind spots. So would you say that processes, building a strong team, and having clear values are the core principles of running a successful agency, or is there something else you’d add?

Carol Shih: I’d add self-awareness. We’ve talked a lot about that, and it’s critical. I always recommend that business owners find a mentor, work on their mental health, and really understand their own weaknesses. You have to be humbled by your limitations. Granted, I know that bootstrapping forces you to be frugal, but there’s so much support in communities, especially among women founders, that’s available if you just ask.

You also need to find your “why.” What’s your motivation for running this business? Knowing your why helps you push through challenges and also tells you when it’s time to call it quits. People don’t talk about quitting enough, but it’s essential. Yes, grit is important, but you also need to know when something isn’t working and it’s okay to walk away.

Mary Vallarta: That’s such a valuable perspective—knowing when to quit is a form of wisdom, not failure. And your why is definitely influenced by many factors—your internal drive, being a wife and mom, your professional goals. Let’s talk about how you balance those multiple worlds: how do you run your company while maintaining a loving relationship and nurturing your children?

Carol Shih: It all comes down to transparency. At Qode Space, our core values align with my personal values. We prioritize quality, community, and transparency. My team knows that I’m a mom and that my CTO, Tasha, is also a mom. We’re open about it—we have 10 AM stand-ups, and everyone knows they might hear kids in the background. When you lead with transparency, your team follows suit.

We’ve built a culture where people are responsible and communicate openly about what’s going on in their lives. For example, one of our team members had a family emergency, and he was out for a week. But he stayed in touch, letting us know he was okay and asking us to cover for him. That’s the kind of culture we have—a team that has each other’s backs. I don’t love the “we’re a family” narrative because my own family wasn’t the best model, but I do value trust and transparency. Those are the pillars of our culture.

Mary Vallarta: That level of openness is so refreshing, and it creates a supportive environment where everyone can thrive. You mentioned earlier that your chosen family plays a big role in your life. Would you say that community became even more crucial for you because of the lack of support from your biological family?

Carol Shih: Absolutely. I lean on my chosen family much more than my blood family. I don’t believe in the saying “blood is thicker than water.” For me, it’s about who fills my bucket—those are the people who matter. The friends who check in on me, the ones who support me when I need it—they’re my family.

Not everyone is fortunate enough to be born into a loving, supportive family. You learn to accept where you come from and the cards you’ve been dealt. You don’t have to be resentful, but you do get to choose who you allow into your life. That choice is empowering.

Mary Vallarta: You seem to have found such a peaceful way to reconcile that. It’s inspiring to see how you’ve built a community around you that aligns with your values.

Carol Shih: It’s taken a lot of therapy! [laughs] But seriously, therapy helped me accept that you can build the family you want, even if it takes work. Friends come and go, just like family does. The key is staying present and appreciating the people who are there for you.

Mary Vallarta: Yes, being present is everything. And it’s true that nothing is permanent, whether good or bad. That’s just life.

Carol Shih: Exactly. Learning to roll with it is essential. I have friends who always respond with, “Everything sucks,” whenever I check in on them. And then I have friends who say, “You know what? Things are just a bit crazy right now, but it’s not forever.” Those are the friends I keep close because they understand that this too shall pass.

Mary Vallarta: I love that mindset. So earlier, you mentioned that many Asian women are taught to be quiet and obedient, to blend in. But you’re the opposite—you’re funny, outspoken, and dynamic. How did you abandon those cultural teachings to become the trailblazer you are today?

Carol Shih: It goes back to how I was raised. My mom was a business owner, but she wasn’t present in my life. The most common thing she’d say to me was, “Shut your mouth and stay in the corner.” I was taught to be quiet and observe, and I spent a lot of time doing that. But when I left home and came to the U.S. for college, I started finding my own voice. I got involved in the community, and I realized I could be someone with a voice.

Entering my 30s was a turning point. I learned to embrace what I liked about myself, and I stopped caring about what others thought. Not everyone is going to like you, and that’s okay. I think the older you get, the fewer fucks you give. I love being in my 30s and can’t wait to be in my 40s because you just become more comfortable in your own skin.

Mary Vallarta: Yes, I totally agree. The 30s are about becoming more self-aware, and I’m really excited about entering my 40s too!

Carol Shih: We’re going to rock our 40s, especially since we look good! [laughs]

Mary Vallarta: We do! Our 10-step skincare routines are paying off.

Carol Shih: For sure. [laughs]

Mary Vallarta: Speaking of community, you co-founded Major Asians, which is all about supporting Asian founders. What do you think are the unique challenges Asian founders face, and how does Major Asians help?

Carol Shih: Major Asians grew out of a branding strategy in New York called Major Futures. My co-founders and I came together because we saw so many opportunities to help Asian founders, especially those struggling to break out of their own communities.

One of the main challenges is that many Asian founders don’t ask for help—they’ve been taught to stay within their lines, not stir the pot, and just keep things within the community. But that limits their growth. Major Asians’ goal is to provide support, whether it’s rebranding their businesses or helping them expand their reach. We want to amplify Asian brands because there’s a huge market of people looking for products that reflect their culture.

Mary Vallarta: I love that mission. It’s so important for the cultural creators to be the ones benefiting from their products, instead of others monetizing it without giving credit where it’s due.

Carol Shih: Exactly. We’ve seen that happen with so many things—yoga, gua sha, boba. It’s about time we take ownership of our own culture and bring it to the world.

Mary Vallarta: Absolutely. You’re doing incredible work with that. Before we wrap up, I have one last question. What advice would you give to your younger self?

Carol Shih: I’d tell my younger self to have more fun. I wish I had partied more, skipped classes, and gone to Coachella. I was the overachiever going to 8 AM classes, double majoring, and competing with myself for no reason. I wish I’d taken it easier and enjoyed those carefree years.

Mary Vallarta: You can still go to Coachella! We should plan a trip after this.

Carol Shih: Maybe I will! [laughs]

Mary Vallarta: Well, this was such a fun conversation. I have one last question for our listeners who might have an e-commerce business and are struggling with conversions. What’s your advice?

Carol Shih: Start with a site audit. Don’t panic and start throwing money at fixes until you know what’s wrong. Do a health check on your website, especially if you’re on Shopify. We offer free site audits, and that’s the first step—understand your site’s performance and address any glaring issues before making changes.

Mary Vallarta: Great advice. And for those thinking about starting an e-commerce business, what should they be doing to prepare?

Carol Shih: Understand that you’ll need to invest about 5-8% of your annual income into web development. Also, expect that it will take at least three months for any marketing initiatives to show returns. This is a long game—don’t expect immediate results. Be patient and be prepared to invest both time and capital.

Mary Vallarta: Thank you, Carol. How can people connect with you?

Carol Shih: You can find me at QodeSpace.com or on Instagram and LinkedIn. My email is Carol@qodespace.com, and remember, our company name starts with a Q—QODE Space.

Mary Vallarta: Thank you, Carol! I’ll make sure to include all your details in the show notes. And thank you, everyone, for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing, rating, and reviewing. Tradition Breakers is produced by Tasty Directives, and our theme music is by DJ Professor Moses.